tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post3993772609271917902..comments2024-03-27T23:06:03.736-05:00Comments on The Music Salon: It's Canonic: 20th century, 2nd halfBryan Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-61459115127982735962016-11-05T09:19:25.510-05:002016-11-05T09:19:25.510-05:00I am hugely in agreement with you regarding Shosta...I am hugely in agreement with you regarding Shostakovich and his Symphony No. 15! I considered Lutoslawski and may have to think some more about him. I agree with you regarding Britten's War Requiem. Thanks very much for your other suggestions, which I will try to get around to considering.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-57422482381605062112016-11-04T16:12:47.291-05:002016-11-04T16:12:47.291-05:00Berio's Sinfonia has not aged well, in my view...Berio's Sinfonia has not aged well, in my view. The theme of alienation, cultural fragmentation, and the idea of there being nothing else to say has been explored much more powerfully by many others -- and long before he came along. <br /><br />In fact, Shostakovich's 15th Symphony covers some of the same ground, but with about ten times more depth and profundity and without the tendentiousness. Speaking of Shostakovich, really most of his late work is canon-worthy. I would particularly note the Second Cello Concerto. <br /><br />Lutoslawski might find a place in the canon, especially some of his early work. I think the Third and Fourth Symphonies may yet get their day. <br /><br />Schnittke will probably linger on the fringes of the canon and avoid relegation to total oblivion. <br /><br />Boris Tchaikovsky is little known in the West but would perhaps be my dark-horse candidate for someone who may yet get his due. His Third Symphony (Sevastopol) is a fine piece. <br /><br />I think Britten's War Requiem will NOT earn a spot in the canon. It's banal, mannered and, in my view, quite pretentious. <br /><br />I also have my doubts on Gubaidulina. Western audiences are easily hoodwinked by the "mysterious Russian soul" but her music is really quite primitive -- upward and downward scales and predictable contrasts between extremes. <br /><br />I was surprised to see someone mention Penderecki's Polish Requiem. That piece seems to already have been buried. If the St. Luke's Passion still gets an occasional performance (will be performed next year in London), the Requiem seems to have already been forgotten, save the Chaconne. I like some of Penderecki's work but a lot of it is terribly cliched and really quite pedestrian. Henry Johnstonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08126973068234337979noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-85670644050919485682016-10-22T08:44:48.121-05:002016-10-22T08:44:48.121-05:00Gruppen and Momente seem to me to be the perfect e...Gruppen and Momente seem to me to be the perfect examples of Important Avant-Garde Works Much Mentioned in Music History Classes but ones with little chance of becoming part of the canon!<br /><br />I know that Tippett is pretty highly regarded, but I always find his music ugly.<br /><br />James Macmillan!! Yes, will do.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-71586838445102029122016-10-22T05:48:02.284-05:002016-10-22T05:48:02.284-05:00Claude who? Yes, I see your point.
I forgot this ...Claude who? Yes, I see your point.<br /><br />I forgot this was just orchestral music. Gruppen might count though.<br /><br />You know, I've never heard any Rautavaara, for some reason or another. Rothko Chapel is a great suggestion, however.<br /><br />I've never had particularly strong feelings about Tippett -- what's your objection? Couldn't agree more about John Luther Adams though. Fortunately his music is very easy to forget.<br /><br />You must explore James Macmillan's work. Just saw the premiere of his Stabat Mater last week, and it was a very impressive work, met with rapturous applause and a standing ovation. I only say this to convey how much his music is liked, and why I suspect he will be remembered as an important composer. So, yeah, worth exploring.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-60504095501911658792016-10-21T10:25:42.542-05:002016-10-21T10:25:42.542-05:00Jives, thanks! I will do an update adding Arvo Pär...Jives, thanks! I will do an update adding Arvo Pärt. About the Adamses: I think I will add John Adams based on things like Shaker Loops, but John Luther Adams I think is a good example of a composer that will be forgotten fairly quickly. Or am I just a big meanie?<br /><br />Slugging, you know, I thought of Stimmung, which I will probably include in vocal music, but I honestly could not think of an orchestral piece that is canonic. Oliver Knussen is an interesting example, though possibly too national, as you say. Claude Vivier would be a Canadian example. Pretty good, but really not known elsewhere.<br /><br />James Macmillan has been mentioned to me by other commentators, but I have not explored his music yet. Michael Tippett is my go-to example of a composer that should be forgotten as soon as possible. Tavener is a good suggestion, though.<br /><br />Yes, I considered Penderecki, especially the Threnody.<br /><br />To your ending list, which is great, we could add something by Einojuhani Rautavaara maybe?<br /><br />How about Rothko Chapel by Morton Feldman?Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-7611206469623858382016-10-21T08:32:14.577-05:002016-10-21T08:32:14.577-05:00I'd defend Stockhausen somewhat. His work coul...I'd defend Stockhausen somewhat. His work could be memorable, and even interesting. Case in point being Stimmung, though that's probably just because of its minimalist bent.<br /><br />To some extent I wonder whether the canon differs country to country. I would point to the works of Oliver Knussen as part of the canon (e.g. Ophelia Dances), but it may well be that they just get played more in Britain.<br /><br />More Brits. For James Macmillan I think it's fair to say his work will make the cut. His percussion concerto Veni, Veni Emmanuel has been performed over 500 times worldwide since its premiere in the early 90s, I believe. Also Michael Tippett's A Child of Our Time; however, that's the only Tippett piece that'll make it, I imagine. And even John Tavener, boring though I find his music, his work is very popular.<br /><br />Oh, mustn't forget Penderecki. His St Luke Passion and Polish Requiem, for example, are already widely appreciated. <br /><br />A handful of others spring to mind that may well enter the canon:<br />Pettersson -- Symphony No. 7<br />Per Norgard -- Symphony No. 3<br />Sofia Gubaidulina -- Offertorium<br />Kalevi Aho -- Symphony No. 9<br />Arvo Part -- there's too much to choose from...<br /><br />With the exception of Norgard, whose work I'm not overly familiar with, I think all the composers listed have produced work that listeners actually like, which should ensure their longevity. It is interesting that most of the works that first come to mind for me are later in the century. The exceptions are mainly Shostakovich and Messiaen. Even with Penderecki, his Polish Requiem (1984) will likely prove more enduring than his St Luke Passion (1964, I think).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-67720895924361305892016-10-20T10:31:07.644-05:002016-10-20T10:31:07.644-05:00If "canonicity" is in some part dependen...If "canonicity" is in some part dependent on audience enthusiasm, and demand for repeated performances, then a century from now, we'll probably have a lot of John Luther Adams and Philip Glass in the mix, which is ok. I think Arvo Part will be kindly remembered, as well as Reich. I'm reminded of this book by Robert Reilly, which you've highlighted before. <br /><br />http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Item/5009/surprised_by_the_beauty_of_20thcentury_music.aspx<br /><br />I think that euphony (more or less) will win out, and most of that spiky, inhospitable the mid-twentieth century music will linger on as a curiosity, aired out at bearable intervals. <br /><br />At this late stage, our cultural landscape is so fragmented that we're not really experiencing cultural high points together. Maybe the canons themselves will be multiplying.<br />Jiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02430049896063808671noreply@blogger.com