tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post8138613086910108481..comments2024-03-27T23:06:03.736-05:00Comments on The Music Salon: New Old MastersBryan Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-67486002116402648372016-03-22T09:08:46.423-05:002016-03-22T09:08:46.423-05:00That is a very interesting suggestion, Todd. I can...That is a very interesting suggestion, Todd. I can think of a couple of pieces where a cadence is handled in rather a symbolic manner: the Symphony No. 7 of Sibelius and Thus Spake Zarathustra by Richard Strauss. But for the Classical era at least, the cadence has a very concrete harmonic function with nothing symbolic about it.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-20838544044724834572016-03-21T16:43:24.224-05:002016-03-21T16:43:24.224-05:00Perhaps a return to the symbolic meaning of the ca...Perhaps a return to the symbolic meaning of the cadence in early music can be clarifying:<br /><br />Think of it not as ending in a state of rest but rather as a return to the singularity of the infinite, and then: a new beginning. This symbolizes the origin of all things from the infinite singularity of God, and it's return, just as the soul is born into the body and then returns on death. And the also infinite possibilities between are illustrated by transformation and evolution, which is what all living things experience.<br /><br />This is certainly an idea that can always have currency, when stated in a form congruent to our time (whatever that is!)Todd Fletcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16174617431777868315noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-89103155953910762102016-03-18T07:58:56.048-05:002016-03-18T07:58:56.048-05:00Thanks, so much Jeph! I am very glad that composer...Thanks, so much Jeph! I am very glad that composers read my blog.<br /><br />Your comment makes me rethink what I said and I think you are right--I did overstate the case. In fact, I just recalled one piece I wrote, a song, in which each section does end with a, more-or-less, conventional cadence. I think the reason is that the song, while hovering between D major and B minor, is less ambiguously tonal than is usual in my music.<br /><br />It is difficult, I suspect, to use a traditional cadence in a non-ironic way. As an example, we might look at the String Quartet #6 of Shostakovich, where each movement ends with the same cadence--but it is clearly meant to be sardonic. It has the effect of a mock bow or genuflection. The avoidance of a traditional cadence has led to what we might call the "Gallipoli" close after the movie by Peter Weir. That ends with the protagonist being shot and, at the very moment he is hit, the film stops, frozen. It is a very powerful and dramatic ending. The identical kind of ending is found in the song "I Want You" from Abbey Road by the Beatles where the tape is simply cut with no warning. A cadence, in a lot of recent music, is a kind of denouement that is often avoided. Look at virtually every piece by Steve Reich which also end by simply stopping suddenly.<br /><br />We can hear the cadence being deconstructed, as it were, in the way Sibelius finds to end each of his symphonies. Finding the traditional cadence too anticlimactic, he strives in each piece to find a new solution to the problem. I wrote several posts on this here: http://themusicsalon.blogspot.mx/2014/03/sibelius-symphonic-endings.html<br /><br />There are also three follow-up posts.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-20232218262504432362016-03-17T14:08:24.655-05:002016-03-17T14:08:24.655-05:00I think that's quite a radical statement you m...I think that's quite a radical statement you make about cadence, more Modernist than I would have thought. And that's cool, I'm just trying to work out your aesthetic point of view. So, for you personally, the cadence has been drained of significance, and you avoid its use in your own music. why? Why don't they sound right to you? <br /><br />btw I love your blog, there's nobody else to talk about this stuff with.Jephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-84169772322041405002016-03-17T13:38:09.315-05:002016-03-17T13:38:09.315-05:00Hey Jeph, if you can make them work, more power to...Hey Jeph, if you can make them work, more power to ya! They just don't sound right in my music, so I have to find other ways of punctuating or structuring the flow.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-18871854956338939932016-03-17T13:13:27.030-05:002016-03-17T13:13:27.030-05:00Thanks, David!
Oh yes, there is definitely what s...Thanks, David!<br /><br />Oh yes, there is definitely what seems to be a "technique deficit" in the creation of a lot of the iconic works of modernism such as canvases by Rothko or works by Damien Hirst etc. When the latter tried to do a show in which he reverted to more traditional representational pieces he was heavily criticized for not having the technique.<br /><br />But there are also examples of artists who offer highly developed technical devices within a modernist framework such as, perhaps, Ai Weiwei or Francis Bacon. And in music we have people like Pierre Boulez or Eliot Carter or Brian Ferneyhough who seem to have a great technical command.<br /><br />This is why I feel there is a need to distinguish between the technique or craft and the aesthetic. I think that the aesthetic goal is primary and it in turn suggests the necessary technical means.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-22882236362603769792016-03-17T13:12:43.518-05:002016-03-17T13:12:43.518-05:00Oy Bryan, now you've got me wondering about al...Oy Bryan, now you've got me wondering about all those cadences I put in my piece...Collapse? Aren't you overstating it? Is the cadence truly "over" in art music? How are we defining cadence? ii-V-I ? To my mind, even modern music requires some moments of repose and relief from ambiguity to be truly satisfying. Jephnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-23597312464642019272016-03-17T09:42:59.514-05:002016-03-17T09:42:59.514-05:00Bryan, another great post. I am an adherent to yo...Bryan, another great post. I am an adherent to your "radical" aesthetic school. As a confession, I must admit that I have little to no skill as a creator of art. With that said, it occurred to me that it seems easier to produce modern as opposed to aesthetically "classic" art: Rothco (and his colour fields) vs. Jacob Collins and his appealing realism; modern music's droning repetitions vs. Haydn's inventive sound world. <br /><br />If rectangles of colour like Rothco's "Orange, Red, Yellow" can sell at auction for over $86 million, why take the time and trouble to produce the realistic light and shadow, form and movement of a Collins canvas? The modern painter can "explain" the work to the public ala Rothco: "Rothko believed that the rectangles merely offered a new way of representing the presences or spirits that he tried to capture in those earlier works. "It was not that the figure had been removed," he once said, "..but the symbols for the figures... These new shapes say.. what the figures said." In this way, Rothko imagined a kind of direct communion between himself and the viewer, one which might touch the viewer with a higher spirituality." [quote from: http://www.theartstory.org/artist-rothko-mark.htm]<br /><br />Jacob Collins' work doesn't need explanation. What you see is the sum total of what the artist offers for your aesthetic appreciation.<br /><br />Sorry, I have rambled on. But my basic point is that from the outside of the "creator world" it seems that much more effort, time and skill (or genius) is needed to create successfully in the steps of the old masters.Davidnoreply@blogger.com