tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post5624384120685860954..comments2024-03-27T23:06:03.736-05:00Comments on The Music Salon: Friday MiscellaneaBryan Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comBlogger73125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-47216015378037460682015-08-24T10:57:20.480-05:002015-08-24T10:57:20.480-05:00People may wonder what classical musicians are doi...People may wonder what classical musicians are doing during those ten or so years it takes to "master" (not that you ever really do) an instrument. Part of the answer is training yourself to read and understand musical scores with the goal of making them come alive in the most transparent way possible. I am avoiding using the word "intention" as it is problematic, but what we are trying to do is see the musical meaning inherent in the score and make it come alive for the audience. This involves historical, theoretical and aesthetic understanding.<br /><br />Handwriting is a somewhat oblique analogy, but perhaps a related one might be what Medieval monks did with manuscripts: they copied them as accurately as possible, though sometimes doing nifty illuminations.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-62408342426801022192015-08-24T01:40:33.171-05:002015-08-24T01:40:33.171-05:00I like your analogy about the stained glass window...I like your analogy about the stained glass window vs clear glass. It must be a devilishly difficult goal to reach. Just look at our handwriting. We all learned the same strokes in school but no two people write the same way. As a child I tried desperately to change my handwriting. Never succeeded and it's still basically the same. Is that a bad analogy?Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-44753914866959157092015-08-23T06:52:13.426-05:002015-08-23T06:52:13.426-05:00The most important factor in choosing an instrumen...The most important factor in choosing an instrument is that you really like that instrument! Whatever it is, if you like it, the sound, if something about it really attracts you, then go for it. Even if it is the sopranino ophicleide!<br /><br />Some people might say that any 2 year violin student could play like Lindsey Stirling, but they are most likely idiots. Bowed string instruments take a lot of work. My violinist partner says that it can take a couple of years just to get exactly the right angle and position for the right hand holding the bow.<br /><br />I have had a number of adult students over the years and while what they can achieve is curtailed somewhat by not starting young, still, they seemed very happy with what they were able to achieve!Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-1243538010870505602015-08-23T02:55:36.276-05:002015-08-23T02:55:36.276-05:00Just looked on eBay for violins :
http://www.ebay...Just looked on eBay for violins : <br />http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xviolins.TRS0&_nkw=violins&_sacat=0<br /><br />It might be harder for adults in some ways but maybe easier in other ways. We supposedly have more maturity, right? Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-86138074143396144532015-08-23T00:53:09.967-05:002015-08-23T00:53:09.967-05:00Ha, Christine! had to go look up Lindsey Stirling;...Ha, Christine! had to go look up Lindsey Stirling; I think I draw the line at letting myself be captured on video dancing, whether it goes on YouTube or not. Haven't read that post of Bryan's yet, but it's common knowledge (probably actually real knowledge in this instance, because of the way the brain works, I gather) that one learns languages and music easier and more efficiently or better at an early age rather than at 55. In any event, no earth-shattering harm can come from trying the violin or cello out, I suppose, but am not decided. Hadn't thought about rentals. Marc in Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04331547981498637474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-27610216528934173142015-08-23T00:18:04.119-05:002015-08-23T00:18:04.119-05:00What's the worst thing that could happen if yo...What's the worst thing that could happen if you tried the violin or cello? Can't you rent one? And don't people often say that any 2 year violin student could play like Lindsey Stirling? That's always amazed me. I'm not a fan but just 2 years? Really? If it's true go for it! You can buy yourself some Peter Pan costumes, dance around on YouTube and get rich and famous! Sorry, I couldn't resist joking.Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-75011266761322615202015-08-22T21:17:26.388-05:002015-08-22T21:17:26.388-05:00You know, I think I actually almost understand!You know, I think I actually almost understand!Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-85082057640213842592015-08-22T17:37:21.991-05:002015-08-22T17:37:21.991-05:00Hmm. Thanks for the pointer to the 2011 post. I ha...Hmm. Thanks for the pointer to the 2011 post. I have thought about the keyboard option, too, and frankly the only reason I've pushed it aside is that the gross incongruity of investing in an electronic keyboard when there is a perfectly fine, if practically unusable (long story...), upright piano in the house is too offensive to my sense of economy.Marc in Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04331547981498637474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-49360299225809262132015-08-22T12:10:13.859-05:002015-08-22T12:10:13.859-05:00This is turning into a monstrously long comment th...This is turning into a monstrously long comment thread!<br /><br />A long time ago I put up a post on learning music as an adult:<br /><br />http://themusicsalon.blogspot.mx/2011/12/learning-music-as-adult.html<br /><br />Might be worth reading. I think that the most economical approach might be to purchase a digital keyboard (they start around $200) and re-learn piano. Violins and cellos are more expensive than you think, for a decent one. Also, with piano, even an electronic one, you have access to an astonishingly large repertoire. I also think it is easier to get started as an adult.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-24088079321566250232015-08-22T11:40:30.879-05:002015-08-22T11:40:30.879-05:00Back in the 70s, when I was in high school, I reme...Back in the 70s, when I was in high school, I remember (or seem to) not infrequent harpsichord recitals at the university-- I believe there had been a renewal of interest in the instrument, and that it had even become fashionable. I guess that was toward the beginning of the 'historically informed performance' business. <br /><br />I may as well confess it: have been looking at violins and cellos and thinking about whether I could be serious about learning to play one or the other; years, it would be, before I acquired a basic facility. Hmm; any (printable) comments about a project like that? A local tutor was very enthusiastic, but am pretty sure that is her ordinary state of being rather than a comment on my specific prospects. Would actually prefer to return to the piano but that's not practicable in the foreseeable future whereas the comparatively modest investment in a violin or cello is. I honestly don't know if I can manage the hand and finger coordination. Perhaps recognisable notes! by the time I'm 60. <br /><br />Bryan, like most well-educated Catholics who also take their faith seriously, I think we all of us can fairly easily distinguish between the formal pronouncements of dogma and the daily homiletic insructions. :-) <br /><br />Marc in Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04331547981498637474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-2283119818096654712015-08-22T11:11:31.699-05:002015-08-22T11:11:31.699-05:00Marc could probably explain it better, but as I un...Marc could probably explain it better, but as I understand it, when the Pope is speaking in his official person on matters of faith or morals he cannot err. This is called papal infallibility. The use of this power is referred to as speaking "ex cathedra".<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility<br /><br />Oh yes, performers need to be careful about what they project, even if inadvertently. I think my ideal performers, people like Grigory Sokolov or Rostropovich, try to be akin to a window on the music, transparent, as it were, and not like a stained glass window that alters the light that passes through it. Mind you, this is an ideal that is often challenged and it is the opposite in the pop world.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-2503037601567820522015-08-22T10:53:31.064-05:002015-08-22T10:53:31.064-05:00I don't really understand what you mean by ex ...I don't really understand what you mean by ex cathedra, sorry! <br /><br />The harpsichord itself was lovely, (clavecin in French) and the man who had built it was there to answer questions about it's construction. And as I said, the chapel is beautiful. My favorite architecture, very simple unadorned stone. I just wish I'd been able to appreciate the music better.But I'd invited my friends to thank them for a favor and they were thrilled so...<br /><br />Thanks for the info about the cello. The 2cellos are amazed themselves that they are filling up arenas and concert halls with only 2cellos since, according to them, the cello isn't or wasn't a particularly popular instrument. Apparently now there aren't enough cellos or cello teachers in Croatia to meet the sudden demand. <br /><br />By the way the tickets cost 20 euros. Somebody mentioned the cost of music festivals in a comment. And at this concert there weren't any wheel chairs or walkers. Only canes and crutches.<br /><br />Concerning our discussion of the musician's persona one of my guests wrote me a message to thank me this morning and said that at first she didn't think she was going to like the concert because the musician seemed so smug and self satisfied. I'd never thought about how much the perception of the performer's personality, looks etc could impact appreciation of the performance.<br /><br /><br /> Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-36241131628913122602015-08-22T10:27:47.834-05:002015-08-22T10:27:47.834-05:00Here is the Wikipedia entry for Rudolf Matz (1901 ...Here is the Wikipedia entry for Rudolf Matz (1901 - 1988), well-known in cello circles at least:<br /><br />https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Matz<br /><br />Perhaps I should preface my remarks by indicating whether they are "ex cathedra" or not! Heh! A lot of what I say is simply the expression of the accumulated wisdom of musicians over the centuries. The rest is just my possibly fleeting personal opinion.<br /><br />Lucky you, Christine! Harpsichord concerts are very thin on the ground around here!<br /><br />The interesting thing about the cello is that it was not particularly liked as a solo instrument until the very end of the 19th century. It was a continuo instrument and there are concertos by Vivaldi (who wrote concertos for everything) and Boccherini (who was himself a cellist), but until the Dvorak concerto, it garnered little respect as a solo instrument. You might almost think of it as a 20th century instrument as that is when it came into its own.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-83488251495797266032015-08-22T10:02:21.053-05:002015-08-22T10:02:21.053-05:00Marc I'm glad you enjoyed the Matz piece. Brya...Marc I'm glad you enjoyed the Matz piece. Bryan said of the cellist,Stjepan Hauser, that he definitely has 'real ability as a cellist' and I'm supposing that's a step higher than having 'facility'. I haven't yet completely understand the rating scale yet. It's true his emoting isn't to everyone's taste however.<br /><br />I haven't yet listened to the Quartet in D minor for four cellos but I will.I'm still reeling from a harpsichord concert I attended yesterday evening. Luckily the venue was lovely because the music and I didn't connect at all.<br /><br />Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-20767233294188429972015-08-22T00:44:22.951-05:002015-08-22T00:44:22.951-05:00I think that Matz's Elegia (I don't think ...I think that Matz's Elegia (I don't think the composer would mind if we use the Latin instead of the Croatian!) is lovely, a proper mix of Romantic melancholia and subdued but hopeful expectation. Judging by this and his Quartet in D minor for four cellos, he is a fine composer, and I find it odd that there doesn't seem to be much of anything written about his work except perhaps in Croatian-- perhaps because he doesn't seem at all interested in the modernist, minimalist etc etc currents. But of course it is foolish to judge very certainly based on two compositions.<br /><br />The 2Cellos fellow, Stjepan Hauser, well, well, I'm sure he is an accomplished musician but I find his stage persona a bit off-putting-- he needs to stop wagging his head so. But, pft, I wouldn't not go to a concert of works from the classical repertoire because he was the performer, and am not competent to comment on his technique etc. Began listening to the Performance Today audio but was interrupted and haven't made it back. Marc in Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04331547981498637474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-14427304821890536272015-08-21T16:16:18.784-05:002015-08-21T16:16:18.784-05:00Hi Marc
Maybe it simply comes down to whether or ...Hi Marc<br /><br />Maybe it simply comes down to whether or not we like the musician's personality. I have friend who heard a French popular singer give a very rude interview and since then he can't bear to listen to his music.<br /><br />Here is the piece by Matz that we were discussing with Bryan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkGR7FzBtxw<br />It's the only one I know. Let me know if you like it! It's short enough!<br /><br /><br />Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-19972498236705003082015-08-21T14:41:43.701-05:002015-08-21T14:41:43.701-05:00This is an interesting discussion, indeed. It seem...This is an interesting discussion, indeed. It seems to me that the bottom line is whether this or that extra-musical activity affects e.g. Lang Lang's pianism-- and since I don't follow him particularly, I'm not in a position to judge.<br /><br />I grew up in a small university town outside of Cincinnati, not poor by any means, although I tend very much to appreciate Mother Teresa's comments on poverty in the affluent countries of the West-- it isn't material poverty that's necessarily the worst. Precariously middle class, the precariousness due to parents' divorce. Anyway, while I've had the opportunity, through friends, acquaintances and the circumstances of life, to get to know people from both extremes of the socio-economic spectrum, it wouldn't occur to me personally to bring up the subjects of income and my private life in conversation, except in very particular circumstances, and people who glibly prose on about their intimate lives in public are exotic creatures so far from my own experience that I can't but doubt their sincerity and suspect their motives; but that's me, and as I wrote above, the Lang Langs of the world can do what they like as long as it doesn't affect their music, which is my only interest in 'em. I've listened to the cellist Jean-Guihen Queyras, for example, quite a lot over the years, and Cecilia Bartoli; their most scandalous public moves, so far as I can tell, are likely to have been... a less than successful choice of a particular piece of music for a recital or concert, although CB certainly has managed to garner... a sufficient amount of publicity. <br /><br />I listened to Matz's Quartet in D minor (four cellos!) from the Dubrovnik Summer Festival in 2000 (on YouTube, although there are also two versions on Spotify of the same piece-- seems to be the only Matz on Spotify, alas). Never having listened to four cellos play together for 25 minutes, it was perfectly pleasant; whether and how often I want to listen to multiple cellos for that or greater lengths of time, I'm not sure: certainly I liked it enough to give it another hearing; one of the Spotify versions, although not until later in the weekend. Matz seems to have been a great cello pedagogue-- a perfect exemplar of the musical virtues of the <i>ancien regime</i> in the states of the House of Austria.Marc in Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04331547981498637474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-55861349525214071072015-08-21T11:48:04.806-05:002015-08-21T11:48:04.806-05:00Hmm, interesting. Oh no, anything that Lang Lang d...Hmm, interesting. Oh no, anything that Lang Lang does in the way of promotion needn't prevent me enjoying his performances. But, a lot of his performances are tarred with the same brush as when he jams on a Bartok piano concerto with a rock drummer or performs with Metallica. That kind of stuff I am aggressively not interested in.<br /><br />There are an awful lot of factors that affect your career: family connections and assets, luck, having an extrovert personality, meeting the right people at the right time and so on. But this has more to do with the scale of your career. What I am interested in are more those things that are not so easily affected: inherent aesthetic worth and creative ability. So if someone is scarcely known outside the closest circles of the classical world, like Grigory Sokolov, but is a huge aesthetic genius, then I am far more interested in him than in someone like Lang Lang who has chosen to go for the big career and spend his time on shallow promotion. I think a blind comparison of the two of them would reveal their real aesthetic strengths and weaknesses.<br /><br />Mozart had a lot of bad luck with his career, a lot of it stemming from the fact that the mother of the Emperor Joseph II, Maria Theresia, took an active dislike to him and his family. This is the reason why he never got a good, stable position with a court, but had to scramble his whole life. Didn't prevent him from writing some of the greatest music ever, though.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-75823368959803228012015-08-21T11:33:04.114-05:002015-08-21T11:33:04.114-05:00It occurred to me that our difference of opinion m...It occurred to me that our difference of opinion might partly be due to cultural differences. Though I'm sure a lot of Americans would share your viewpoint. <br /><br />I just submitted our discussion to a group of French friends and they agreed that the perfume business is a bit over the top. Doesn't stop them from enjoying Lang Lang's performances however. I work in both the scientific and business worlds and self promotion is important in both. It doesn't seem fair that the flashier extraverts often come out on top. But don't you think that pure luck, getting a break at the right time, is important too? If you know Lang Lang's story it would seem that a lucky break contributed to his success when he was still quite young. Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-68431494144691247702015-08-21T07:49:32.367-05:002015-08-21T07:49:32.367-05:00I'm cursed with some inherently Canadian virtu...I'm cursed with some inherently Canadian virtues! Mind you, if I were doing my career all over again, I would do it quite differently and do much more self-promotion. It is essential to building an audience. But it can be done adroitly or not. If you are a fairly serious artist, you don't want to portray yourself as a clown because the sort of audience you would attract would not find your performance satisfying. Be who you are is good advice, but at the same time, display who you are at your best.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-10610308833554912372015-08-21T07:34:59.107-05:002015-08-21T07:34:59.107-05:00O.K. I think I get it now. Self promotion whether ...O.K. I think I get it now. Self promotion whether it be through highlighting good looks, sexuality, unseemly marketing, whatever, is offensive to you maybe because there is a dishonest quality to it, like 'sleeping your way to the top' instead of relying on pure merit. And if by chance you happen to be a modest somewhat reserved introverted type it must be all the more annoying. I guess I'm just happy for successful musicians or artists of any kind. And in the interest of full disclosure I'm often accused of refusing to see any sort of ill or dishonest intent in peoples' motivations. Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-68046348339569387762015-08-21T07:19:30.258-05:002015-08-21T07:19:30.258-05:00Matz and Sollima are, as far as I know, quite obsc...Matz and Sollima are, as far as I know, quite obscure composers, but then, most composers are! I can't speak for Marc, but I also come from an impoverished background. One of the reasons that I did not put composition as my first priority for most of my life is that there were no models--I couldn't quite envision being a composer. I struggled up from nothing and nowhere just like a lot of others have. But, unlike some people, I don't cry the blues about it. But hey, if Bugatti wants to put my name on a car, that's ok. Of course they don't and it might be interesting to ask why. The reason is that I do not have the enormous public profile that Lang Lang does. A great deal of what he does is to expand and cultivate that public profile. I find most of it embarrassing and inappropriate.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-56375691247035818492015-08-20T16:13:25.133-05:002015-08-20T16:13:25.133-05:00Hi, Christine! I want to point out that just becau...Hi, Christine! I want to point out that just because <i>I</i> don't know someone's reputation means very, very little, ha; I discover composers and musicians new to me almost every week. For many, many years, 'classical music' for me was the three Bs, Chopin, and two oratorios of Handel. Marc in Eugenehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04331547981498637474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-84217950631050026322015-08-20T13:48:49.466-05:002015-08-20T13:48:49.466-05:00Hi Marc and Bryan
Marc if you listen to the Rudol...Hi Marc and Bryan<br /><br />Marc if you listen to the Rudolf Matz piece and/or the Giovanni Sollima piece I'd be curious to know if you like them. In my ignorance I assumed Matz was some famous classical composer everyone knew. I was very proud of myself for being able to introduce something new to Bryan!<br /><br />Bryan I've just read your post on Lang Lang. He really is a funny guy. Looking at the picture he is actually very cute. I know we're not supposed to notice that sort of thing but there you go.<br /><br />I enjoyed the Sokolof piano piece that accompanied the post and tried immediately to see if Lang Lang had a recording of it. No luck, but there is a ten year old Chinese boy playing it very differently on YouTube. Hardly recognized it.<br /><br />I think the big difference between us is that I put myself in the place of a Lang Lang or 2CELLOS, coming from poor or modest means and having sacrificed enormously to get a classical education with no guarantee of any future and I think, what would I do in the same circumstances if someone offered me a lot of money to put my name on a car? I have a struggling artist friend who has made enormous concessions almost humiliating herself to try to make enough money to pay the rent. Our motivations and choices are very different when we've been poor.<br /><br />If you have the patience to listen to this interview I think it will give you an insight into what's going on in the minds of some young classical musicians, how they perceive the opportunities and obstacles in the classical world and why they make the choices they do:<br /><br />http://performancetoday.publicradio.org/listen/static.php?name=/performance_today/perftalks/2015/03/06/interview_2cellos_20150306<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Christine Lacroixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02006109075551438090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-40265570532150177052015-08-20T12:28:01.438-05:002015-08-20T12:28:01.438-05:00This is the 49th comment on this thread which I th...This is the 49th comment on this thread which I think is a record here at the Music Salon. <br /><br />Whew, I see what you mean, looking at tickets for a recital at the Salzburg festival that run from 66 euros for the cheap seats to 177 euros for the expensive seats.<br /><br />In days past, one never spoke about money! Good point about how the reasons why certain positions are publicly trumpeted so loudly are so often unstated. I should do a post...Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.com