tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post542794164473833343..comments2024-03-27T23:06:03.736-05:00Comments on The Music Salon: How Long is a Song?Bryan Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-14915090897281661532014-07-18T11:35:38.568-05:002014-07-18T11:35:38.568-05:00Thanks, Nathan! High compliment. I suspect that th...Thanks, Nathan! High compliment. I suspect that the relationship between how a movement is structured and its duration is one of the most interesting aspects of composition--and one that theorists don't talk about too much.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-53575348802469478962014-07-17T23:44:57.805-05:002014-07-17T23:44:57.805-05:00This is a great post, you've really hit the na...This is a great post, you've really hit the nail on the head here. It is odd that the subject of "song" length doesn't come up more often.Nathan Shirleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14123467208814463388noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-43492271258634624762014-07-17T10:13:37.811-05:002014-07-17T10:13:37.811-05:00Is this how the germ of a musical composition star...Is this how the germ of a musical composition starts for you? Mine begin in one of two ways: either through some extra-musical inspiration, like an image or an experience (usually of the natural world) but more concretely, there is some motif or rhythmic idea that comes to me. And that's where I start...Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-79844443314003481332014-07-16T12:45:18.779-05:002014-07-16T12:45:18.779-05:00Sounds interesting.
My symphony idea (just a conc...Sounds interesting.<br /><br />My symphony idea (just a concept rather than solid musical ideas so far) I mentioned before will have four movements. The first movement will be allegro or so in a mixolydian key, maybe with a slow introduction. The 2nd movement will be a dance movement in a lydian key. It will have three dances ranging from slow to quick, maybe something like sarabande, gavotte & gigue. The 3rd movement will be in a dorian key, not sure about the tempo but probably ranging from moderato to vivace. The 4th will be slow and in a phrygian key to begin with but eventually accelerating and finally modulating to the mixolydian key it started with, possibly closing it with the same material the symphony began with.<br /><br />It will of course be a while before I can seriously start working with it. I need a lot more practice, especially in structure and handling more instruments at the same time.Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08084578675339015204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-63399884540844396462014-07-16T08:49:04.529-05:002014-07-16T08:49:04.529-05:00Funny you should mention that. I just finished the...Funny you should mention that. I just finished the first movement of my second symphony and it uses two modes mostly. The A section is in dorian mode, though not obviously so, and the B section is in Lydian on A flat. This makes for a D natural and I use this D natural as a pivot between the sections.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-47498185448348351202014-07-16T08:43:11.445-05:002014-07-16T08:43:11.445-05:00Alright, thanks for the explanation!
Yes, you'...Alright, thanks for the explanation!<br /><br />Yes, you're probably right, musica ficta probably. Speaking of lydian, I find it to be the most tricky mode except for maybe locrian (haven't improvised much locrian stuff). It's quite tricky melodically.Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08084578675339015204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-74311723699227093442014-07-16T07:16:27.999-05:002014-07-16T07:16:27.999-05:00There is a slow evolution in instrumental music. I...There is a slow evolution in instrumental music. In the early days of notated music, say, from 1000 AD to 1200, the only thing written down was a vocal melody. We know that instruments were used from various kinds of evidence: carvings of musicians in cathedrals, pictures in manuscripts and written down accounts and descriptions of musical events. But we see nothing in the notation. A chanson from this time was notated as a single melodic line, just like Gregorian chant. The rhythms were pretty iffy too. So modern performing groups try to recreate how they think the music was performed by using instruments: perhaps a vielle or recorder doubling the melodic line, some bare fifths accompanying on the lute and some percussion. We should all remember that these are just guesses!<br /><br />Later on, as multi-voice secular music developed, there was the possibility of assigning the main melody to the voice and the others to instruments. This is probably the case with the Machaut and Dufay examples. But a percussion part is still pure speculation. The next development is the development of instrumental notation known as tablature. Instead of showing the pitch of the note, this shows you where to put your finger to obtain that note. There are examples of tablature for both keyboards and lute. By the end of the 16th century we see the development of the modern score, with written out parts for both voices and instruments. And example would be the music to Monteverdi's opera Orfeo.<br /><br />About the mode of the Machaut song? I can't find the score online, so hard to be sure, but those incongruous leading tones you hear might be just musica ficta, i.e. notes raised by the performers according to the various rules about accidentals. It would be very odd for a piece to be in Lydian mode in that century.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-69763428521615429882014-07-16T04:42:50.571-05:002014-07-16T04:42:50.571-05:00Yes, it does seem to be the most common length in ...Yes, it does seem to be the most common length in most music periods. Of course, one of the great things about classical music is that it often doesn't rely on song which I think is one of the reason it's freer than pop music (of course, pop music in general lacks the outside the box (or rather genre) thinking that is common in classical music).<br /><br />Anyways, I'm curious about a slightly different thing. After reading the Oxford History of Western Music I got the understanding that most (i.e. pretty much all) medieval (and even most reneissance) music that was written down didn't include any musical instruments. Or at least that's the impression I got from what Taruskin wrote. This clearly seems to be false as the examples above show. Of course, there was probably a lot of music that was played using instruments during that time but was never written down. So, if you could maybe help get rid of my misunderstanding as to the division between pure song, song plus instruments and instruments only during medieval and reneissance times it would be nice. <br /><br />Also, to me medieval music that uses instruments in some sort of way sounds very different to music afterwards, it's almost like a completely different musical world. It's very refreshing to hear such medieval music and I find it quite mysterious. <br /><br />Finally, I might be wrong but the "Dame a vous" song seems to be in lydian.Rickardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08084578675339015204noreply@blogger.com