tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post5111556181094401940..comments2024-03-27T23:06:03.736-05:00Comments on The Music Salon: The Meaning of the TextBryan Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-46595205061704958492015-07-03T07:12:08.088-05:002015-07-03T07:12:08.088-05:00Very thoughtful comment, thanks Gabriel!
When I s...Very thoughtful comment, thanks Gabriel!<br /><br />When I said that La Marseillaise is about a lot more than just the sound of it, I was referring to the context of its creation and reception. Yes, it is certainly arguable that these things are not part of the aesthetic object strictly speaking. But La Marseillaise, the original title of which was "Chant de guerre pour l'Armée du Rhin" has and had an extramusical function. There are many pieces of what you might call absolute music, with no text or obvious extramusical function, that are best considered from a strictly aesthetic point of view. In some cases where these works have accreted nicknames like the "Moonlight" Sonata, it is likely best to ignore these accretions. But other pieces of music, especially ones with text like La Marseillaise or a mass or opera, have an extramusical reference or function that you could argue is inherent in the piece of music. La Marseillaise was a revolutionary marching song and is now the national anthem of France--these facts are inherent in its history, reception and fundamental characteristics.<br /><br />Now let's take a less-obvious example: the Preludes for piano of Debussy. Each of these has an evocative title that Debussy intended to be read when the music was performed. Number 6 from Book 1 is "...des pas sur la neige" which evokes a particular kind of mood. Contained within the score are expressive markings that enhance this atmosphere such as the instruction: "Ce rhythme doit avoir la valeur sonore d'un fond de paysage triste et glacé" ("this rhythm needs to have the sonic value of the depths of a countryside sad and frozen").<br /><br />Imagine that we have two aesthetic objects: one is called "Prelude No. 6, Bk 1" and the other is called "...des pas sur la neige". How different are they as aesthetic objects? Also, in order to completely purify the prelude of extramusical associations we would have to remove a number of expressive indications in the score, such as the one I quoted. Now, to my mind these two pieces are not quite the same: one has an evocative aura and mystery that the other does not. So, they are somewhat different aesthetic objects even though the notes and rhythms are the same.<br /><br />Changing the number of a Beethoven symphony does not alter its quality, true, but removing the dynamics and tempo words would. For Beethoven, these things are part of the score and therefore of the aesthetic object. For Debussy his very evocative titles and expressive indications are also part of the score.<br /><br />So, I guess I am slightly in disagreement with myself on this! Music is so darned complex...Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-90701500845121265252015-07-02T20:03:58.642-05:002015-07-02T20:03:58.642-05:00Hi Bryan,
I was thinking about the exact same th... Hi Bryan,<br /><br /> I was thinking about the exact same thing regarding titles and music! I once posted a comment here, saying I thought music was just the sound of it.<br /><br /> Quoting your reply: "(...) La Marseillaise is about a lot more than just the sound of it. But instrumental music can also suggest non-musical moods or images. Many pieces by Debussy, for example. Even so-called abstract instrumental music can act in this way such as the "Pathétique" sonata by Beethoven." <br /><br /> It is true that music can suggest the extra-musical. But is that ability part of music? Is what something can do part of it? I can think of no example in which this is true. Therefore I argue that music's ability to suggest is not part of music.<br /><br />Another question: is the title part of a piece of music?<br /><br />It is logical that something should be judged for what it is. Let titles be part of music. That means that a piece of music of certain aesthetic value could become better if you changed it's title! (Of course, I make the assumption that any changes to a piece of music necessarily alter it's aesthetic value). Changing the number of a Beethoven symphony doesn't alter it's quality. So one can conclude that, if my assumption is right, titles are not part of music. <br /><br /> I would love to hear your thoughts! Especially on my underlying assumption.<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065548105468507743noreply@blogger.com