tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post4492414568390440221..comments2024-03-27T23:06:03.736-05:00Comments on The Music Salon: Friday MiscellaneaBryan Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-72214108029909644732018-07-30T12:21:08.385-05:002018-07-30T12:21:08.385-05:00Thanks for providing that revelation about the new...Thanks for providing that revelation about the new role of the producer! I'm not sure what pop needs these days. But I do like what Kanye West is doing. I did think of someone that is doing interesting things harmonically: Sofia Gubaidulina.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-56376323637695672682018-07-30T11:23:04.833-05:002018-07-30T11:23:04.833-05:00that's exactly right, in the current lingo, th...that's exactly right, in the current lingo, the "producer" has essentially replaced the band. This is true in the pop world too. <br /><br />Now as to an "interesting" approach to harmony, pop doesn't need it really; I'm of the opinion that a thousand great songs can be written with 3 chords. I don't need complexity or fresh approach to experience the delight I spoke of, just competence. A good, knowledgeable producer of Pop music accomplishes this in spades. Good pop songs are marvels of form, concision and symmetry. Simple harmony, deftly handled, will earn my lasting admiration. <br /><br />Jiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02430049896063808671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-19441352812241273622018-07-30T07:48:36.097-05:002018-07-30T07:48:36.097-05:00Fascinating comment, as usual, Jives. The problem ...Fascinating comment, as usual, Jives. The problem of monotony over longer forms might by why people like Kanye West are releasing shorter albums in the 20-plus minute range. What I hear are great textural contrasts, which are interesting in themselves. I confess that the harmonic dullness you mention in rap I find in a great deal of music. What music in recent decades has had an interesting approach to harmony? Not rap, not pop, not composers like John Adams or John Luther Adams, nor Philip Glass or Steve Reich. Harmony is one of the great problems of contemporary music. The other one is melody because harmony and melody are closely related.<br /><br />You are making me realize something about the producer's role in rap. I suppose I tend to think of a producer in terms of what they do in the classical world. Nearly all the producers I have worked with have been with the CBC in Canada. They oversee and organize the session, put the takes together, supervise the editing and so on. The engineer turns the knobs. But I'm starting to realize that in rap, someone like Kanye West is functioning more like a composer: selecting samples, putting them together as the foundation of the song, choosing textures, layering drum tracks, etc. The singer is more like a session musician, brought in to deliver a particular element in the song. The producer is the real nexus of creativity. Is that right?Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-87903448278188097022018-07-29T14:07:56.604-05:002018-07-29T14:07:56.604-05:00The voice in rap is central, and it's very inf...The voice in rap is central, and it's very information dense, so it makes sense to simplify other elements in order to foreground the voice. From it's inception, it has been a sample-driven medium, in terms of writing. It was scrappy kids, looping beats and samples, cobbling things together to make music. Pretty inspiring, really. Often a whole song will turn on one repeated sample. If it's a good one, then it provides some of the harmonic elements needed to make the song go forward, give it some kind of tonal center. But depending on the skill of the producer, and the quality of the samples, the tonal center is often not very clearly defined. And harmonic departures (the hook, the bridge) are often not handled in a traditional way (like moving to the dominant or the relative minor), but chosen for textural or tonal contrast to whatever was chugging along with the verse. <br /><br />Now as a classically trained listener, I can't help but analyze music on the fly. What I hear in many a rap production (not all) is an unconcern or unawareness of some musical basics which are the underpinning of effective memorable writing, like key/tonic-dominant relationship. I don't hear a concern with chords or the dramatic arc of a song, in terms of harmony. (A notable exception to this is an act like Kendrick Lamar, collaborating with really good jazz musicians, who handle the harmonic complexities) What I usually hear is an obsessive concern with texture, timbre, rhythm (which you pointed out), and of course the words. <br /><br />Given these parameters, the problem rap really has to overcome is that of monotony. Rap is a singles medium, a good track makes you want to move your body. So in that way, it is libidinous and not cerebral. Across longer forms, like an album, this wears thin and it doesn't generally succeed. Rap provides little meaningful stylistic variation in overall feel, there is no rap-ballad. Spoken interludes or juvenile skits are often used to break up the monotony of albums. A whole album's worth of rap tends to leave me feeling...empty, unsatisfied, vaguely cranky. Not least from the often hectoring and haranguing tone of the lyrics and delivery. But also because the harmonic expectations are never carried through to my satisfaction or delight, and that's something I'm really listening for. <br /> Jiveshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02430049896063808671noreply@blogger.com