tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post3667039154303697134..comments2024-03-27T23:06:03.736-05:00Comments on The Music Salon: Why Pop Music Can't Be HumorousBryan Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-62835834987594625942016-05-12T08:34:42.483-05:002016-05-12T08:34:42.483-05:00And they're from Vancouver! If I had a million...And they're from Vancouver! If I had a million dollars, I'd buy you a nice K car!!Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-45078813665002457532016-05-11T21:04:28.829-05:002016-05-11T21:04:28.829-05:00For humour in a pop group try Barenaked Ladies. Th...For humour in a pop group try Barenaked Ladies. Think "If I had a million dollars ". Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12037901644167481168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-24409971145375410902016-05-11T12:04:36.684-05:002016-05-11T12:04:36.684-05:00Haydn did very well in terms of his earnings as a ...Haydn did very well in terms of his earnings as a composer, but it was probably no more than a typical middle-class income of today. Until very recently, no artists, not even painters, made very much money. The really large amounts going to artists are pretty much a late-20th century and early 21st century phenomenon. It seems very established, but one wonders if it could melt away equally as fast?Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-22002082571665870462016-05-11T11:18:24.105-05:002016-05-11T11:18:24.105-05:00Yep, that's the one. Okay, safe to say you'...Yep, that's the one. Okay, safe to say you've persuaded me. I'm quite amazed that it was so little. Quickly looking up Beethoven's profits from the Congress of Vienna -- surely it must have been substantial, I thought -- and it looks to be nearly as measly. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-7530561074935782522016-05-11T10:57:13.198-05:002016-05-11T10:57:13.198-05:00I meant, the first movement of Shostakovich 15! Th...I meant, the first movement of Shostakovich 15! The last movement has several non-humorous quotes.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-70430635331589710332016-05-11T10:55:12.606-05:002016-05-11T10:55:12.606-05:00According to Friedrich Rochlitz, who interviewed M...According to Friedrich Rochlitz, who interviewed Mozart's widow five years after his death, the amount of the commission for the Requiem was 100 ducats. Assuming these are gold ducats, you can buy a gold ducat coin from the Austrian mint today for $138 US. That would make the commission, even at today's gold prices, $13,800. Frankly, it ain't much! But considering that the ducat was only worth about $2 in 1913, the commission was probably a lot less, even figuring in the difference in buying power. Compare this to a successful pop artist of today like Beyoncé. According to PayWizard.org, she makes over $50 million dollars a year, or a million a week!<br /><br />When you are talking about a $15,000 commission, while the money is nice, that has rather a different kind of influence on what you do than when it is $50 million a year. I think this explains why a lot of pop music is simple melodrama, or inauthentic emotional posturing. That seems to sell pretty well.<br /><br />The last movement of Shostakovich 15 is the one that keeps quoting the Rossini theme, right? Yes, that is pretty hilarious.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-4007707053521894352016-05-11T09:34:49.874-05:002016-05-11T09:34:49.874-05:00This is testing my limited music history, but sure...This is testing my limited music history, but surely big classical commissions were no different? Mozart was offered lots of money for his Requiem, was he not, but this didn't make it any less of an artistic project<br /><br />Or I'm missing the point. Is your emphasis not on the money but on the mass appeal that's now neccesary in pop music?<br /><br />On Shostakovich: I find the first movement of his last symphony really quite funny, like an excited child at the playground.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-87598456200727609842016-05-11T08:58:34.066-05:002016-05-11T08:58:34.066-05:00Yes, great examples! There are probably some other...Yes, great examples! There are probably some others in Shostakovich.<br /><br />I often like to lead my readers in a certain direction, but hold back from stating a firm conclusion. I think it would be an interesting exercise to examine the progress of pop music over the last 100 years. It started out as a very modest trend that was amplified enormously by the growth of the recording industry. All prominent musicians benefitted from the commoditisation of performances. Caruso could only sing one concert a day, but his recordings could sell in the thousands per day. Then Elvis and the Beatles came along and they sold a billion records each. Suddenly pop music was a Big Business. This has just become more pronounced as time goes on. It is a bit like any other business, I think. When the monetary stakes are high, it is less about the art form as such or even the individual vision of the artist and it is more and more about sales. As an artist grows from making a 1000 sales to making 10,000 sales to a million sales, he becomes the CEO or figurehead of a whole industry with dozens or perhaps hundreds of employees, all of whom depend on those sales. It is now a Big Business. Big Businesses cannot afford humour at their expense. It might hurt sales.<br /><br />This, in a nutshell, is why as pop music became more of an industry and less of an art form, it became less interesting.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-49397377905589675542016-05-10T21:53:11.603-05:002016-05-10T21:53:11.603-05:00I don't think I can recall anything funny in a...I don't think I can recall anything funny in a minor key, but dissonance can certainly be funny. Think the end of Ives' Second Symphony, or the second movement of his Piano Trio, 'This Scherzo is a Joke'. Ligeti similarly.<br /><br />I'm curious, is the natural conclusion of your argument that pop music is therefore more pretentious than classical?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-53219520497207558172016-05-10T20:15:15.218-05:002016-05-10T20:15:15.218-05:00Wow, and I don't even know those two you menti...Wow, and I don't even know those two you mention!<br /><br />Haydn has written some of the funniest minuets ever. Have a listen to the "alla zingarese" from op. 20 no. 4 in D major. The way he is constantly twisting the meter around I imagine most quartets just collapsing in laughter the first time they try and play it.<br /><br />I think that some composers can make the minor mode sound funny, can't think of an example offhand. But Beethoven was a master at expressing deep emotion in major keys. Some of his slow movements in C major are just stunning.<br />Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-54154559842987822072016-05-10T14:09:09.054-05:002016-05-10T14:09:09.054-05:00You've got a point here. I'm racking my br...You've got a point here. I'm racking my brain for funny pop stars... all I'm coming up with is The Waitresses and Alien Sex Fiend. Pop stars are trading in "coolness" and I think the relationship of cool to humor is an uneasy one, so it tends to manifest in the broad buffoonish Weird Al style, or in a sort of grim sarcasm. <br /><br />It takes a bit of coaching and familiarity to hear the humor in classical music, though. Minuets usually bore me a bit, but we did the #103 recently, and the conductor took a little time to explain to us and the audience how very silly the minuet is: it's weird cuckoo motive echoing around the orchestra with slippery modulations to distant keys. Once you know what to listen for, you can hear it everywhere. <br /><br />Here's a question that nags at me sometimes. Is it harder to be funny in a minor key? Is it harder to express depth of emotion in a major key? Jephnoreply@blogger.com