tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post105339050441644859..comments2024-03-27T23:06:03.736-05:00Comments on The Music Salon: A Multicultural PuzzleBryan Townsendhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-18241512344405828142018-01-14T13:21:20.225-06:002018-01-14T13:21:20.225-06:00Some great points about the incommensurability of ...Some great points about the incommensurability of works of art. People likely often wonder, in the absence of objective scientific criteria, just how do musicians and critics evaluate works of art? What are the aesthetic criteria? Those are good questions. I think that works of art, since they cannot be reduced to the numbers of science, have to be approached from various perspectives. There are, for example, works of great historic importance such as Monteverdi's opera L'Orfeo or Debussy's piano prelude Voiles. There are works that deeply integrate, for example, the religious and the aesthetic such as Bach's St. Matthew Passion. There are works of surpassing emotional depth such as the Beethoven late string quartets. There are works of sublime delight such as the Mozart piano concertos and so on and on. In other words, evaluative criticism in music can involve a surprisingly large palette of techniques and aspects. And at the end of that process there will be no crude claims that such and such a piece or genre is equal or unequal to any other. However, one can certainly make the observation that the aesthetic purpose, methods and materials of this work or genre are far more (or far less) sophisticated or have a greater or lesser capacity for expression than another.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-71884937518601949872018-01-14T10:27:13.832-06:002018-01-14T10:27:13.832-06:00The journalist and the musicologist, like anybody ...The journalist and the musicologist, like anybody else, are free to use whatever words they like, and sometimes we need to avoid an overly-semantic approach to understanding the spirit of their ideas. Personally, I would have avoided the word "equal" unless used as a describing-helping word (no doubt grammarians have a better term for this function) such as "equally moving" or "equally XXXXX," since without the more specific adjective we are left in an ambiguous place where "equal" could mean anything and will only invite this kind of debate.<br /><br />Not being familiar with the First Nations music, but drawing on my deep love for some American bluegrass and country gospel and other roots music, I can say some of it is indeed "equally moving" and "equally dear to my heart" as my favorite classical music. Early in my listening career I learned there are many elements that can, in combination, make music great, and it is not necessary to have them all for the music to get right into your heart. An example is virtuosity, which I have always admired but when contemplating a great Beatles or Paul Simon song I find virtuosity is not required for music to take me away like the wild wind. Does that make those songwriters "equal" to Beethoven? No, a great apple will never be a great orange.Will Wilkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01997868915978439364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-7119038348380202532018-01-14T08:57:43.905-06:002018-01-14T08:57:43.905-06:00Thanks, Will. Good point. Also, let me add to my c...Thanks, Will. Good point. Also, let me add to my comment above. Patrick, you mention proving using current scientific methodology? As I have been trying to point out in a few of my posts on aesthetics and scientism, the methods of science do not give any access to aesthetic questions. Works of art have to be evaluated using aesthetic, not scientific criteria. Usually when scientists look at art they transform it into something else, often taking a psychological or neurological approach.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-81529030194199666652018-01-13T10:41:49.167-06:002018-01-13T10:41:49.167-06:00The problem here seems to be in the connotations o...The problem here seems to be in the connotations of the word "equal," which in the wake of the good and righteous liberation movements of the 20th century, has come to have a political sense not just legally but in terms of the respect and esteem deserved. Fair enough but just as no individuals are "equivalent," neither are the musics of Canadian First Nations equivalent to the western composers --and Bryan's analysis of the effects of sophisticated notation in preserving individual innovations and genius seems to me a good explanation for why western art music tends to be more sophisticated and varied than even the best folk or "roots" music. And this is coming from someone who loves a lot of folk and roots music, but more for the emotional and spiritual content than the musical technics, where notated compositions really do shine brightest.Will Wilkinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01997868915978439364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-72849160830893483312018-01-13T08:05:55.118-06:002018-01-13T08:05:55.118-06:00Hi Patrick and thanks for the comment. But let me ...Hi Patrick and thanks for the comment. But let me unveil my emotional state! How we know stuff, which in philosophy is called an epistemological problem, is always of interest to me and perhaps should be a tad more interesting to everyone else as well. Let me give an example. I just read a front page article in a major newspaper that offered a revelation about a well-known politician. But when you read the article you discover that the whole story is based entirely on information "according to people familiar with the matter." That's it. All of the principles involved denied the story. This is not a piece of "news" that should be featured on the front page of a newspaper, this is mere rumor, gossip and innuendo. Similarly, every time I read a story about the difficult challenges facing a particular minority group and see that the writer is a member of that group I discount it all as "special pleading."<br /><br />The standard in philosophy is that if you make a claim, you have to offer evidence and the stronger or more radical the claim, the stronger the evidence required. This used to be true of all scholarly pursuits, but lately the standards have been slipping.<br /><br />So my request for evidence is not in itself evidence of my neurotic hangups, but rather an appeal to a standard scholarly procedure and my use of the word "prove" was not because I think that that word is ideal, I don't, but because it was used by the writer of the newspaper article.Bryan Townsendhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09482696991279345516noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8827040061563065922.post-68970523879754038522018-01-13T07:28:20.055-06:002018-01-13T07:28:20.055-06:00"how would she go about proving it"? Bry..."how would she go about proving it"? Bryan, this seems to be something about which you worry a great deal. Even if if it were possible to 'objectively' prove, using current scientific methodology, one genre was superior to another, of what use would that be? I can't think of any, even in the realm of music education. Relax, lighten up and just enjoy and be uplifted by what you personally like.Patricknoreply@blogger.com